TINUBU IS AN EMPEROR, WILL BE DIFFICULT TO DISLODGE IN 2027- SULE LAMIDO. (PHOTO).

 Tinubu is an emperor, will be difficult to dislodge in 2027 — Sule Lamido

Former governor of Jigawa State and erstwhile Minister of Foreign Affairs, Chief Sule Lamido, is one of the founding fathers of the former ruling party, the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). In this interview by Senior Deputy Editor, TAIWO AMODU, he speaks on the fortunes of the PDP and the chances of the main opposition party to wrest power from President Bola Tinubu and the All Progressives Congress (APC) in the next general election in 2027. He speaks also on the intrigues surrounding the PDP membership of Tinubu’s Minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), Nyesom Wike, and other national issues.

Nigerians regard the PDP as the main opposition party but the party is embroiled in intractable crises. As one of the people who birthed the party, how are you dealing with the problem?

Why pick on the PDP in isolation from the Nigerian factor? PDP is an institution run by the Nigerian people. So, why do you think the PDP would be run differently? Tell me one institution that is working well in Nigeria today. So, why treat the PDP in isolation?

It is a Nigerian thing; whatever is happening in the PDP is happening everywhere else, in government institutions, even in newspaper organisations, wherever you see Nigerians. So, the PDP is a Nigerian phenomenon and run by the Nigerian people, not by angels from heaven and, therefore, it is the same spirit whether in the APC or the PDP. Even if you go the APC, the people you find there are all PDP. So, let us look at it holistically. It has to do with the Nigerian spirit: our attitude, our behaviour, our culture as a people. Are we disciplined? As a people, are we patriotic? Are we patient? Are we tolerant? So long as we lack discipline or patience, or tolerance or adherence to the rule of law, there will be crisis, whether in PDP or APC.

APC is there today because it has the capacity to make noise. Ask Salihu Lukman, former National Vice Chairman, (North West) of the APC, about the party. So, the PDP is just a reflection of the attitude of Nigerians, the character of Nigerians as a people. The question is, are the Nigerian people willing and ready to salvage the country? Is it about me or about us? So, if it is about me alone, what do you expect?

The people look up to the PDP as an alternative to the APC but the party has kept losing elections. What is the way forward?

You are still taking about the mood of the moment. You didn’t reflect on the past. You must look back and ask what is the source of the problem. If you see a raging fire, you must identify the source to be able to control the smoke. You are simply talking about the symptoms, you are not looking at the bigger picture. When you say PDP, in 1998 when it was formed, the main focus was to restore unity in Nigeria, to restore people’s confidence which was undermined by June 12 (1993 presidential election annulment) and a section of the country felt cheated and lost the sense of belonging. After the PDP came to power, the country was stabilised, as against the (previous) feeling of distrust. Chief Olusegun Obasanjo from the South West emerged as the president even though they never liked him in his region.

What is happening now is that we failed to build on that stability. Unfortunately, today, we are only reacting to the consequences of our own actions. Look at this government, all the governors, the majority of the lawmakers are PDP, only a few are from the Lagos axis but the majority of them are PDP. Even the Secretary to the Government of the Federation (SGF) in Tinubu’s administration – George Akume – was in PDP. (President Bola) Tinubu, (Vice President Kashim) Shettima, the SGF are former governors, former senators, up to the Senate President. Isn’t there a better team with a lot of experience to solve Nigeria’s problem than this team?

 

The narrative out there is that some of you are helpless and you have conceded the political space in the PDP to the likes of Nyesom Wike. Is that the true situation?

Wike is our creation, we made him. Where was Wike in 1999? Somebody who was your own invention, whom you thought you could develop, groom as a future leader now tells you that he is his own person now, what do you do? To me, Wike is not a factor. If Tinubu is not tolerating him, who is Wike? So, Wike is there today because the environment is there for him to manipulate and exploit. Simple.   We are putting political expediency over national interest. Wike is being hyped by Tinubu to destroy the PDP but destroying the PDP also means destroying Tinubu.

 

What does Tinubu stand to lose if the PDP is destroyed? Nigerians are saying Wike was actually planted to undermine the PDP. Is that arrangement not to Tinubu’s advantage ahead of 2027?

No, Wike wasn’t planted. He is PDP. Are you saying it was Tinubu who made him Special Adviser to (former Rivers State governor,) Peter Odili or Chief of Staff to (former Governor Rotimi) Amaechi? Are you saying it was Tinubu who made him governor of Rivers State? No, Wike was never planted. He is PDP but then that is the Nigerian character that we have been talking about. But ultimately, he will become a political orphan to Tinubu and both of them are going to lose because the entire arrangement is unholy; it is immoral, it is un-Nigerian. This issue of betrayal, undermining your party isn’t part of our culture. No matter how long he serves Tinubu, ultimately, both of them are going to lose because the country is losing. So, Wike was never planted. He was simply identified, he is a willing character who lacks the morality and the good character and honour not to disown his own party. He has mortgaged his own party.

 

Considering all of this, how does the PDP plan on winning the next general election?

It is a huge challenge. Are the Nigerian people willing? The issues of insecurity, of the economy, of poverty are all there. It is not about the PDP, what is the opinion of the Nigerian people? People have been hired to destroy the PDP but we are making every effort, because right now, we have people who are anti-PDP. Imagine people like Ortom (former Benue State governor) saying ‘our leader, Wike, has said we will vote Tinubu in 2027’. Imagine someone in the PDP saying he is going to take a cue from Wike to vote Tinubu in 2027. People who are in the PDP are also working for the APC and Tinubu. So, it is a very difficult thing. We are working hard to find people who share a similar concern because those in the party who are now in government are not on the same frequency with us.

If you have those in government who share same frequency with us, we can confidently say yes, but it depends on who you can you identify and we are doing that. We are working hard, but it is a huge task. It is going to be difficult with Tinubu, with his hold on the country, on the economy, and his audacity to say this is where I stand against Nigeria’s interest. It is something else. Tinubu is very daring; he is his own creation, he is a self-made man, right from Chicago, what he went through on the streets. Look at how he was able to fight the Alliance for Democracy and Afenifere and then Obasanjo. At the APC convention, Buhari was against him but he defeated Buhari. What are you talking about? Don’t underestimate a man like that. Look at how he made it in life. He confronted all obstacles to get to where he is today, at the apex. There is no Nigerian like Tinubu who has been there on his own. Every established political arrangement, every institution, he demolished them. Now that he is in charge, he is not going to be easy to deal with. With Tinubu, Nigeria is a fiefdom, Tinubu is the emperor. And if you watch him closely, he doesn’t care.

He paid the governors at the convention. Prior to the convention, he was in Abeokuta, Ogun State, where he boasted that it was his turn to rule Nigeria. And Buhari, very naive, was watching. He never liked Tinubu. There was somebody he wanted. He didn’t even trust his own vice president, Professor (Yemi) Osinbajo; he wanted Ahmed Lawan, but his calculation was absurd. You have done eight years for the North and you wanted another Northerner for another eight years?! No. Maybe later but there are some dynamics which you can’t alter, not in Nigeria of today.

The president of Nigeria, after being in office for eight years, lacked the courage to push through his anointed choice. He was there at the convention and Tinubu that he never liked, he never believed in emerged. Tinubu knows that his victory wasn’t from Buhari, therefore,  he owes him nothing. He wasn’t the choice of Afenifere, Obasanjo never liked him, but he became president. All the other groups, including the governors, were there but he won. He was determined to demolish all obstacles and he crushed them.

 

Has the PDP conceded that Tinubu is unstoppable in 2027?

No. You see, the domestic cat fed on small chickens, but one day, the mother of the chickens stood up to the cat. Tinubu is that cat. What I am saying is that even Pharaoh’s empire collapsed. So, no matter how daring you are, ultimately, it won’t end well. So, Tinubu today is somebody who has a grip on Nigeria, who owes obeisance to nobody in Nigeria, who believes that God made him and he made himself and he is now lording it over the Nigerian people and nobody can challenge him. He was adept at studying the system, manipulating it. He exploited it and he did it well. I wish he could use his sagacity, his talent to help Nigeria’s development. It would have been wonderful. But he is using it negatively. He has everything but not for the development of Nigeria and it is affecting you, it is affecting me.

 

Speculations are rife that the bigwigs who lost out in the APC and the PDP are discussing an alternative platform. Are you involved in the discussion?

You see, I am coming from the old order and I am very, very conservative and I have a leg in history. Today, if you mention Obafemi Awolowo or Nnamdi Azikiwe to this new generation, they get confused. They will tell you they don’t know them, they aren’t conversant with history and couldn’t have acquired their values.

If you ask me that question, you are simply reacting to the current event. Those who formed the APC, tell me their shared ideology. Tell me what Atiku, Saraki shared with Tinubu ideologically. Tell me what Amaechi, Murtala Nyako, Aliyu Wammako have in common with Buhari? People in the PDP who walked into the APC, tell me what they have in common with either Tinubu or Buhari. Nothing but desperation to grab power. The whole thing is failing because the purpose wasn’t governance but to gain political power to their own advantage.

So, if today we are trying to react because of the failure of government, it means our reaction is not sincere; it is not genuine. However, if we have to forge (an alliance), fine. But what do we have in common? If we are going to do any alliance, we must put Nigeria first. If we share common commitment, national interest, yes, we can forge an alliance. It must be driven by some moral forces but if the entire desire is just to grab power, no moral principle, it will end up like the APC. Whatever alliance forged must be about Nigeria first. I won’t be part of any special purpose vehicle that will abandon Nigeria. I want something that will arise from genuine and sincere concern about Nigeria first. That should be our rallying point.

 

What is your assessment of Tinubu’s administration after more than one year in office?

Morally speaking, I was in government, my party was in government and then the APC came to Nigerians and was demonising the PDP and then pushed us out of government. Now that you are asking me to assess this administration, how do you think Nigerians will see my judgment? You see, we should be objective. I was in government, we were removed and they took over and you asking me to assess them. I don’t think it is fair for me to do that. I am in the party that lost to Tinubu. No matter what I say now, it won’t be viewed as fair on Tinubu.

 

There were speculations that you were offered the chairmanship of the PDP but you turned down the offer. Why?

Who gave me the offer?

 

Some of the people itching to leave the PDP reportedly approached you and promised to stay back if you would accept to lead the party. Why did you turn down the offer?

I know some people in the PDP who can’t stand Sule; they can’t stand me, no matter what. There is also peer envy today in Nigeria. What I want you to know is that if I go there, I will go with my own kind of baggage. My baggage is what some people stand to hate. But I preferred David Mark because it (the PDP chairmanship) was zoned to the North Central and to me, it is about maturity, consistency, exposure, experience, humility, commitment to the job. David Mark was my choice. I would have loved him to be there because as chairman, he could command respect across the blocs. The governors would not see him as somebody they could challenge. That office needs someone with capacity, skill. He could work with the governors and they would defer to him and vice versa. The other elements in the PDP would also support him and work with him.

I know that I am very, very temperamental. I may not be the best candidate because in times of crisis, you are looking for somebody who can be calm and tactical. Based on the zoning arrangement, the best person would have been David Mark.

 

So, why did he also decline?

I don’t know. He must have his reasons. I appealed to him to make the sacrifice and we would be there for him, but he told me, ‘Sule, I know my worries and my fears’. I also knew my worries and I refused. But again, it was never zoned to my zone in the first instance. Even if you put me there, I have my own baggage in terms of character and ways of doing things. I can be intolerant. I can be rude, unintentionally.